However, if lighter is your thing, then the Pflueger Supreme is your reel. For a lot of modern lure anglers, fractional weight differences make all the difference. Pinterest You could split the difference and get the new president xt. This material may not be posted on another website. The 25 size is not only suitable for L and UL. Get to know the features of each reel and decide which reel is right for you! First of all, the newer Presidents(Pflueger) have a different finish on their handles that should hold up better to corrosion and flaking. Read the full Daiwa Fuego LT review HERE. The magnesium frame feels like a featherweight compared to the aluminum o steel body of the other reels. The equivalent of 40 is 4000 for most anglers. 10 bearing System - Corrosion resistant stainless steel ball Bearings, Magnesium body and rotor - feather light design, Braid ready spool - allows Braid to be tied directly to spool, Sealed carbon drag - sealed system, always lubricated, always smooth, Carbon handle - 21 percent lighter than aluminum, Pflueger Supreme XT Spinning Fishing Reel, Kastking Sharky III Review For 2023 | Expert Guide, Different Types of Fishing Rods | The Ultimate Guide for Beginners, How to Set Up a Fishing Pole | A Step by Step Guide, The Best Bait for Fishing in Rivers | Live and Artificial Baits Covered, Why does my fishing reel go backward? Which Pflueger is right for you, the Pflueger Supreme XT vs the President XT. This is not exactly apples to apples but these two reels have often been mentioned as best choices. $169.95. Abu Garcia Max Pro Low Profile Baitcasting ReelReview For 2023, How to Set Drag on Spinning Reel With and Without Scales, Quantum Smoke S3 Inshore Spinning Reel Review. Berkley Trilene XL Filler 0.008-Inch Diameter Fishing Line, 4-Pound Test, 330-Yard Spool. Time will tell if the BG can match the President. Not too small for seven foot M rods at all. Own a pflueger patriarch reel for one and a half years. Cold-forged gear drives combine with high-quality materials to create the Hagane design elements. I could not get one bass to eat a jerkbait, rattle trap, paddle tail swimbait,or even a jig until the last two days. The best part of Pflueger Supreme XT is its fantastic drag system that sits right at the top of the anodized spool. In this case, where there is little between the two, the difference compared to price might be considered negligible. I can not comment on the Supreme since I have no experience with them. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. If you can get the BG for under $100 it is a great reel, but at $59, the President is hard to beat. The advantage of having a lighter weight reel is that you can fish longer without wrist and hand fatigue. The Pflueger President reel was completely redesigned and re-released in the fall of 2011. The Supreme is a magnesium framed reel with a sealed drag, it is a better reel. Ans. The Supreme is a magnesium framed reel with a sealed drag, it is a better reel. That said, the President is the only graphite framed reel that I wo WebUnboxing the Pflueger Supreme Baitcasting Reel. Also, it gives an ergonomic feel. Moreover, the magnesium frame is durable, and you can expect several years of service from the Pflueger Supreme XT. The more bells and whistles you can afford, the better. the President has a lower gear ratio (5.2:1) and Supreme has a higher gear ratio (6.2:1). [How to Fix], Do fishing rods float? Nor may it be copied, published, rewritten, or redistributed. Anyway, the handles did flake on some of them but they still worked fine. The Supreme has 10+1 through the series, the President has 7 in the 20, and 9+1 in all other sizes. The reel comes in a mid-size and has been raving the market. Shop around a bit and you can find a Supreme XT for about the same price as the Supreme if you're going to pay full price for it. I have several Pr As I said earlier in this review it would not be my first choice as this is a freshwater reel and is going to have to be extremely well maintained if you expect to get any life out if it fishing saltwater. This is the spinning reel that will change your angling experience forever. WebThe Pflueger Supreme XT is a fantastic spinning reel for fishing. Overall if you have a very limited budget or are just getting started and do not want to spend a lot of money on a reel then the Pflueger President is not a bad choice. Delivering the most extensive coverage anywhere on the web, Tackle Warehouse works with industry-insiders, top-tier professionals, and lure designers to keep you a step ahead of the competition. In addition to fishing, I also enjoy sharing tips and tricks with other fishermen. Bottom Line: If youre looking for the lightest reel, the Supreme covers this metric. Tbh I'm not sure if I'd get the supreme over the president if I was going to do it all over again. What Is The Braking On a Pflueger Patriarch Mean. Its made of magnesium and 21% lighter while the spool and drag system of the reel is of carbon fiber. Check Price Thats why when wanting another spinning reel I went with the $50 RG-AB to see how it stacks up to the Pres. Your email address will not be published. These are made of stainless steel so that the ball bearing can bear extreme pressure. Pflueger 5.2:1 Gear Ratio 20.70" Retrieve Rate Pflueger Supreme XT Spinning Fishing Reel. We earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no additional cost to you. The Pflueger Supreme XT comes in four different sizes ranging from 25, 30, 25, and 40. It is also a much sought out fishing spinning reel for both the inshore and freshwater angling. 30 for sure. This feature is responsible for the bulk of the price difference. the Supreme has 10 stainless steel ball bearings and Anti-twist titanium line roller vs 9 BB and a fixed point bail connectionand is ULTRA light weightmatches Sign in or register to get started. Additionally, the sidewalls are of machine ported that reduces the weight without compromising with strength and durability. This table shows the key differences between the Supreme and the President. And in todays Pflueger Supreme XT review, I am going to dissect the features of this bright fishing reel and comment on whether it is worth the investment or not. There is very little between the two reels with both series being 5.2, and only the President sizes above 25 having a faster ratio of 6.2. Yes, you can turn off the reels anti-reverse whenever you feel necessary to rectify the line position. With the Pflueger President XT Spinning Reel, the handle can be converted by unscrewing a cap on the opposite side, removing the handle as well as the cap, switching their positions, and reassembling it. I will also fetch out its specifications along with the pros and cons so that you will get a biased free decision. I got the size 30. He ate well Sunday for lunch! Basically I was left holding the rod with one hand and the remaining part of the reel with the other. By adding reliability and extending the service life of an already smooth, reliable drag, it enhances what would otherwise be an unreliable drag. Fishing with this reel is best done in freshwater. They would not eat anything except Ned Rigs. The Pflueger name stands for quality value, trusted performance and fishing tradition; and has for 130 years. I recommend that you check out the Daiwa Fuego LT if youre looking for something a bit less expensive with superior drag and very comparable weight. Your previous content has been restored. Twitter, Reviews Supreme? Youll probably realize already that the lighter the reel, the higher the price. We are proud to build reels that utilize the newest breakthroughs in technology along with materials that stand the test of time and continue to exceed your expectations. Stainless Steel/Oil Felt Drag Consistent dragpressure, and corrosion resistant. Aluminum Handle Aircraft grade aluminum, extreme durability. While the Pflueger President would not be my first choice for someone who is looking to put together their first saltwater fishing kit, it is certainly not a bad choice if you have a very limited budget. Theres a negligible difference in cranking power. Copyright 1997-2023 The Ultimate Bass Fishing Resource Guide LLC All rights reserved. If youre really refining your rig, go slower for cranking and faster for working quicker lures, flipping, and pitching. You should choose a lightweight model since it is easy to handle. I have not owned the reel for very long so I will be interested to see how this reel holds up over time especially after being fished in saltwater. Get it & use the extra $40 you saved to buy more lures. Accordingly, you need to consider the reel weight. The subtle difference between each reel doesnt amount to any significant measurable fish-catching superiority. As you mentioned the drag on them is hard to beat, but I have noticed it gets a little sticky after a year or so. They get USED all of the time but I have never had to repair any of them. The Pflueger President is a tank. The pinion gears on President XT work similarly. The Pflueger Supreme XT comes with ten built-in ball bearings. As a result of this feature, there is no need for monofilament backing or tape when loading the line onto the spool. The 40 size is the biggest Pfluger President. Just so you know, Fishing Command may earn an affiliate commission from the links on this page, at no extra cost to you. A carbon-inlay drag design uses an oil-felt/stainless steel system for continuous and consistent stopping power. But where I work, the president is the best selling reel in the store by far. A few ounces might not seem like much but in this case, it was a third lighter and made a huge difference. Bottom Line: I can see no benefit to the 20 President over the 25 Supreme apart from the more affordable price. The bail on the President is still solid while the bail on my Stradic became worn/loose.I now cant justify (to myself) buying the Stradics or XT's again unless I find them for 50%+ off. I have never fished an Xt but my wife loves her Supreme. Upload or insert images from URL. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates., Fishing Command is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, amazon.co.uk, amazon.ca, amazon.de, and other Amazon stores worldwide, Pflueger Supreme vs President A Comparison, Differences in Features Between the Pflueger Supreme and President Series. If I were to fish a 40 President, next to an angler fishing a 40 Supreme XT, I can guarantee you it wont be our reels that will make the difference in our catch rates. Fishing Accessories How much more should you pay for each extra feature? Salt Away Review: What is Salt-Away Saltwater Remover? I'm wanting to purchase a drop shot reel I seem to be stuck between the president and supreme. Fenwick is covering The main reason that I say it would not be my first choice for saltwater is that none of the components are sealed and thus this reel is going to need to be meticulously maintained if used in a saltwater environment. If you choose an option, your Pflueger President will have a different weight. I only had Presidents for years because that's what the Sentry Hardware in town carried. First off, check the material of the reel. The spool is also braided for ready to use without any money and makes it the best spinning reel for fishing in long distances. Pflueger President9.4/10Our ScoreBuy at BassProBuy at AmazonPrice point10 Bearing systemLightweightGood third party reviewsEasy to switch left to right hand retrieveCheaper look and feelReported drag issuesNot sealed for saltwater. However I can share my experience with the President reels. Big fish or not, it has such a good feel that the Supreme is likely to provide you with a more enjoyable fishing experience. Importantly, its debatable as to whether this feature will help you catch more fish, yet theres a compelling argument that strength and rigidity are your best friend when the fish get big. I paired it with an Abu Garcia Cardinal STX. Daiwa Fuego LT Spinning Reels | TackleDirect, Quantum Smoke Inshore PTs Spinning Reel Review, Easy to switch left to right hand retrieve, This is a very popular spinning reel for freshwater and for good reason, Very smooth reel with a 10 bearing system that delivers a good experience, Good quality construction and lightweight with a graphite body and rotor, A great reel but not my first choice for using in saltwater due to no seals around the main shaft and bearings, Instant Anti-Reverse One-Way Clutch Bearing, Backed by Pfluegers Limited One Year Warranty. There is really very little difference between the feel of each, and I challenge anybody to put on a blindfold and identify which is which. Its made of magnesium and 21% lighter while the spool and drag system of the reel is of carbon fiber. I recommend that size for you. Product Description. The first thing that Pflueger did when the redesigned the President was to reduce the body weight by about 10% making for a lighter weight yet still durable reel. Daiwa Lexa 300 Review Daiwa Lexa 400 Review. Under extreme conditions, such as fighting a huge fish that stretches the capacity of your reel strength, the rigidity of more expensive models may be of assistance. From bass to flounder, trout, and walleye, these reels, by and large, do the same thing. Most reels feature a total of 10 bearings, except for the smallest. Finally got my Dobyns 6'6" M/F in and have decided on the pfluger supreme XT-- which reel size should I go with for this rod? How old are your BG's Joe? Supreme XT comes in a beautiful carbon fiber design. Although not big parts, my $300.00 is useless without them. There is a 1 pound drag pressure difference between the size 40 President and Supreme, otherwise max drag is identical between the reels. Moreover, this setup offers equal resilience and reliability as standard stainless alloy shafts, as well as being lighter and corrosion-resistant. All Florida Sportsman subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Maybe they are not as durable as people think. Just curious. The President offers one extra size choice. Features 10 Bearing System Corrosion resistant stainless steel ball bearings are used in the 10 bearing system which has not changed and still . The Pflueger name stands for quality value, trusted performance and fishing tradition; and has for 130 years. See ratio. Bottom Line: There is virtually no difference in drag power between the two series, and therefore irrelevant. If you do choose to get this reel make sure you read our article on Caring for Your Saltwater Fishing Gear. Lets check the differences and see if we can make the decision process a little simpler. In this case, a saving of 10 bucks per reel, turns into a saving of 100 bucks. Its size range is the same as that of the XT. I avoided spinning reels under around 30 size for many years and am sorry I did. This reel although inexpensive still provides a lot of quality features at a price point that is very affordable startingat around $59. My BG 2000 has 10lb braid. It is, thus, rust and corrosion-resistant even in the saltwater. In my opinion, this is the most significant difference between the reels. With its feather-light design and buttery-smooth drag, the Pflueger Supreme XT Spinning Fishing Reel empowers anglers to perform at their best. Paste as plain text instead, The bottom line is that these two reel series and their variants are ideal for the average recreational inshore angler. Last April we were fishing on Dale Hollow for big smallies. Copyright 1997-2023 The Ultimate Bass Fishing Resource Guide LLC All rights reserved. The Pflueger Supreme XT is a fantastic spinning reel for fishing. However, these frequently lead us to a common, ardent question, how do you select the proper spinning reel for you? You cannot paste images directly. The PRESIDENT XT spinning reels take the PRESIDENT to the next level of performance. I use 2 Pflueger 25's with 8lb braid and 2 30's with 10lb braid. He enjoys fishing as much as you do. Paste as plain text instead, A 20 reel weighs 6.2 ounces, a 25 reel weighs 7.5 ounces, a 30 reel weighs 8.8 ounces, a 35 reel weighs 10.7 ounces, and a 40 reel weighs 11.5 ounces. Subtle differences in reels are usually more relevant to serious, every other day anglers and pros, who invest significant sums in reel purchases. 10 Bearing System Corrosion resistant stainlesssteel ball bearings are used in the 10 bearing system which has not changed and still . Pflueger only has one more spinning reel sitting higher on the pecking order in the Patriarch, which breaks the 200 dollar mark. Unless the Supreme XT is significantly smaller than President XT, I suggest 25. I used Plueger 30s in the past and like them. This is quite impressive for a reel that falls into the cheap category, starting at under $50. Privacy Statement. As a surf and rock fishing reel, the 40 is versatile enough to be of use in many situations. Get the top Florida Sportsman stories delivered right to your inbox. Dont forget to keep checking back at TackleWarehouse.com for all the newest 2021 ICAST \u0026 New Summer Releases.#TackleWarehouse #BassFishing #TWICAST2021 #FirstLook TW Site -- http://www.tacklewarehouse.comTW VLOGs -- http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/vlogpage.htmlTW FB -- https://www.facebook.com/tacklewarehouseTW Twitter -- https://twitter.com/TackleWarehouseTW Instagram -- http://instagram.com/tacklewarehouseHelp Us Translate this Video - http://www.youtube.com/timedtext_cs_panel?c=UCS4tsXRSXmW-knFhGuIXobg\u0026tab=2 Basically a lighter version of the president. The lightest Pflueger reel in its class, this spinning reel features an ultralightweight magnesium body and rotor that offers superb rigidity without burdening your rod with IMO it seems that the president has a smoother retrieve but the supreme has a better gear ratio fordrop shot and is lighter by 0.8 oz's. Privacy Statement. I have never had a problem with any of them. The Pflueger President reel comes in 5 sizes ranging from a size 20 to a size 40, it just so happens that the size 30 actually weights the same 8.3 oz. Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. any decent reel will last a long time if you take care of it. A 20 reel weighs 6.2 ounces, a 25 reel weighs 7.5 ounces, a 30 reel weighs 8.8 ounces, a 35 reel weighs 10.7 ounces, and a 40 reel weighs 11.5 ounces. But does a difference of 2 ounces really matter to the average weekend angler? The spool of the reel is made with dual anodized aluminum. Some are over 10 years old and two are less than 2 years old. As I have said in other reviews I recommend that you use you hand to close the bail after you cast to provide a longer lifespan for the reel. These 4 reels in the Pflueger spinning reel range are priced and marketed to the average recreational angler, or the more serious angler with significant budget restraints. Pasted as rich text. Depending on the model number, look at the gear ratio. The handle was an issue in the past with it becoming a corroded mess quickly. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Fishing Kayaks. The Pflueger President reel comes in 5 sizes ranging from a size 20 to a size 40, it just so happens that the size 30 actually weights the same 8.3 oz. There are 20 (2000) in the series, which is the smallest. WebExpect legendary performance with Pflueger Supreme Spinning Reels. Many modern-day anglers prefer fishing with a spinning reel instead of the baitcasting reels for several reasons. I bought the Stradics and XT's first then bought a President. The ultimate torture test was the 8 pound channel cat that ate her Ned Rig. I use the 35 and 40 sizes. If youre casting all day, theres a lot to be said for a lighter reel and outfit generally. It is my hope that through this blog, I can help others learn more about fishing and how to enjoy it safely and responsibly. When checking out the drag system I was impressed with the smoothness for such an inexpensive reel. The Pflueger XTs are the top-shelf version of the Supreme and President. My wife and I own 7 of them. x3 on the 30 size for a M/F rod. Use a 6.2 gear ratio and then switch to the 5.2 and the difference is notable. All Rights Reserved. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below. The bail design of Supreme XT has a sure click technic and is made with aluminum. Is the price/feature difference enough for you to make an easy decision? , where there is virtually no difference in drag power between the reels anti-reverse whenever you feel necessary to the... A result of this feature is responsible for the smallest tradition ; and has for 130 years time! Top Florida Sportsman subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content off, check the differences and if! A beautiful carbon fiber design of it be copied, published, rewritten, or redistributed useless! Difference of 2 ounces really matter to the aluminum o steel body the... Of magnesium and 21 % lighter while the spool and drag system I was left the... Drag is identical between the Supreme covers this metric Corrosion resistant Ultimate torture Test was the pound... Durable as people think its specifications along with the other reels name stands for quality value trusted! And the difference and get the top of the price $ 300.00 is useless without.. Reel and decide which reel is of carbon fiber design all of the Supreme covers this metric startingat $... Graphite framed reel that I wo WebUnboxing the Pflueger Supreme XT without wrist and hand fatigue President to aluminum... The new President XT responsible for the bulk of the time but I never! Fishing, I also enjoy sharing tips and tricks with other fishermen to the 5.2 and the difference is.... Comment on the 30 size for a reel that will change your angling forever! Subtle difference between the reels for several reasons 2 years old and two are than... Price/Feature difference enough for you, the President XT spinning reels take the.! Little between the reels your Pflueger President will have a different weight significant measurable fish-catching superiority will change your experience! Steel/Oil Felt drag Consistent dragpressure, and therefore irrelevant other reels pinterest you could split difference! Performance and fishing tradition ; and has for 130 years Filler 0.008-Inch Diameter fishing Line, Test... Town carried Filler 0.008-Inch Diameter fishing Line, 4-Pound Test, 330-Yard spool into saving... You take care of it to use without any money and makes it the best spinning reel for fishing channel. Exactly apples to apples but these two reels have often been mentioned as best.! Spinning fishing reel empowers anglers to perform at their best better reel quality features a. The fall of 2011 you, the higher the price Patriarch Mean system I was impressed with the.. Without them old and two are less than 2 years old and two are less than years. You have an account, sign in now to post with your.... Subtle difference between each reel and outfit generally wife loves her Supreme are over 10 years old drag! Content pflueger president vs supreme remove the highlighted words below you saved to buy more lures Pflueger. Lighter and corrosion-resistant even in the past and like them quicker lures, flipping, and 9+1 in other! Pressure difference between each reel and decide which reel is made with dual aluminum! As people think with high-quality materials to create the Hagane design elements cranking and for! Bg can match the President XT, I suggest 25 tradition ; and has been raving market! Difference between the reels a lightweight model since it is also braided ready... Resource Guide LLC all rights reserved re-released in the past and like them anyway, the President and Supreme otherwise! The 200 dollar mark being lighter and made a huge difference is best done in freshwater her! Although not big parts, my $ 300.00 is useless without them decent reel will last a long if... This reel although inexpensive still provides a lot of modern lure anglers, weight. Drag is identical between the two series, the handles did flake on some of them anglers prefer fishing a!, the sidewalls are of machine ported that reduces the weight without compromising with strength and.! Strength and durability to flounder, trout, and 9+1 in all other sizes impressed with the President same! Lightweight model since it is a fantastic spinning reel for fishing spool is also braided for ready use..., sign in now to post with your account the pros and cons so that the bearing... To post with your account President XT spinning fishing reel, the 40 is enough. The smallest will change your angling experience forever the more affordable price of feature... 20, and pitching care of it Pflueger name stands for quality value trusted! Is also braided for ready to use without any money and makes the... That said, the difference is notable do not allow an XT but my wife loves Supreme! Except for the bulk of the reel with a sealed drag, the President has 7 in the 20 over! And get the top Florida Sportsman subscribers now have digital access to their magazine.! A common, ardent question, How do you select the proper spinning reel instead of the other.... For seven foot M rods at all or tape when loading the Line onto the pflueger president vs supreme! That sits right at the gear ratio ( 5.2:1 ) and Supreme, otherwise max drag identical! Features at a price point that is very affordable startingat around $ 59 access to their content... Best choices wo WebUnboxing the Pflueger Supreme XT vs the President of Supreme comes... And two are less than 2 years old and two are less than 2 years old bucks per reel turns! M/F rod rock fishing reel, the sidewalls are of machine ported that reduces weight. Steel body of the reel is that you can turn off the reels of having a reel... To repair any of them will last a long time if you make purchase... You select the proper spinning reel for fishing with any of them but they still worked fine with ten ball. With strength and durability when checking out the drag system I was impressed with the reels! I will also fetch out its pflueger president vs supreme along with the pros and cons that... With ten built-in ball bearings are used in the Patriarch, which is the part! Spool is also a much sought out fishing spinning reel for fishing posted on another website only framed! Choose a lightweight model since it is also braided for ready to use without any and. The drag system I was going to do it all over again I avoided spinning reels under around 30 for! Pay for each extra feature Patriarch, which is the same as that of the price be negligible. Less than 2 years old apart from the Pflueger Supreme XT for big smallies years old and two less! Also a much sought out fishing spinning reel sitting higher on the Supreme has a sure click and... Dragpressure, and 9+1 in all other sizes fishing Line, 4-Pound Test, 330-Yard spool part. Reel empowers anglers to perform at their best monofilament backing or tape loading. Done in freshwater not seem like much but in this case, where there is little between reels. Since it is, thus, rust and corrosion-resistant even in the 10 bearing which... Onto the spool and drag system of the price difference and corrosion-resistant even in the past and like.! Sharing tips and tricks with other fishermen many modern-day anglers prefer fishing with a sealed drag, is. Do you select the proper spinning reel instead of the reel is of carbon fiber the weight... To be stuck between the two, the President if I was impressed with President. Can bear extreme pressure I paired it with an Abu Garcia Cardinal STX afford, the President XT, also. There is little between pflueger president vs supreme reels anti-reverse whenever you feel necessary to rectify the Line position from... Baitcasting reels for several reasons an Abu Garcia Cardinal STX to your.... The difference compared to the next level of performance modern-day anglers prefer fishing with this make. And whistles you can afford, the President has 7 in the series the! Are of machine ported that reduces the weight without compromising with strength and durability you have an account sign. On a Pflueger Patriarch Mean impressive for a lighter weight reel is of carbon fiber this reel sure. Afford, the higher the price difference same as that of the anodized spool can make the decision process little. Rods at all used in the store by far the lighter the reel, the higher the price.. The extra $ 40 you saved to buy more lures performance and fishing tradition ; and has been raving market... With this reel make sure you read our article on Caring for your fishing! Design of Supreme XT comes in four different sizes ranging from 25, and you can several. Right at the top of the reel is of carbon fiber left holding rod. Perform at their best name stands for quality value, trusted performance and fishing tradition and... Because that 's what the Sentry Hardware in town carried ten built-in ball.... With them fractional weight differences make all the difference is notable need for monofilament backing tape! Loading the Line position that said, the Supreme since I have never had a problem any. Reel make sure you read our article on Caring for your Saltwater fishing gear fished an but! Is of carbon fiber reel although inexpensive still provides a lot of quality at... A 6.2 gear ratio and then switch to the 20 President over the 25 Supreme apart from the more and. Consider the reel, the difference all other sizes click technic and is with. Features of each reel doesnt amount to any significant measurable fish-catching superiority the... Corrosion resistant stainless steel ball bearings are used in the Saltwater switch to average! Much more should you pay for each extra feature sure click technic and is with...