Also is it fair to have comparisons with A&S style here? Henry Poole etc.) What I also find interesting and perhaps would be an interesting point of discussion with a tailor is that even though my right shoulder drops, I dont think my right armhole should be lower. This will offer better value than any MTM service, by some margin. If not Grahame Browne has changed his pricing? Also, is their normally a third fitting?. And no, I dont think its appropriate for business. You could also look at Kent Haste & Lachter, who would be more similar to that style. Having few things made by by Whitcomb now, would you recommend them for a first bespoke suit ? I have received and worn the suit, and can highly recommend it. They will be very different to GB, in cost (more), in quality (higher) and in style (very soft, opposite of GB). Subscribe now and get up to 61% off the cover price. I am happy to share my experience/pictures in 4-5 weeks when it is complete, if it is helpful? 11 St. George Street is a throwback to more elegant times. With a virtually unlimited choice of fabrics and style, there is no limitation except your imagination. I certainly couldnt see it in any of the fittings but its the exact same thing with both tailors. Thank you and have a pleasant weekend. I will take your advice and go with Whitcomb then. Another question: in another post you mention desiring to be measured at the house itself; a friend of yours had gone to a trunk show and did not receive good results with fit. Edge tapes, hems and linings are completely felled by hand. Thanks The lap seam is very much a bit of style flair and is probably worth doing without on your first suit. And you cant miss it in that bunch, It is superior to Graham Browne in most ways, particularly the handwork in the chest, lapel, collar etc. Jennie Adamson et al. The Classic Bespoke follows the same fitting process as our Savile Row Bespoke. Ill ask. Thanks and all the best, Michael. Full disclosure: I did weigh 6kg more when I ordered the suit than I did at the first fitting. I really like the concept of this certainly a product with much more soul than your average MTM suit. It gets made for a lot of weddings. Classic bespoke, single breast in Minnis grey wool cloth 12/13oz. They opened first in Brunswick Square, in 1806, originally specialising in military tailoring, with particular merit at the time of the Battle of Waterloo. I also havent asked about those kind of changes, so Im not sure. I wouldnt worry as regards experience John and Bob (coatmaker) have plenty of experience there. Size given is an estimate. Just an idea. It looks a really nice sturdy twill from the picture. Here Are 5 You Should Know, and Where to Find Them. Im looking forward to commissioning a suit for my wedding next March. Pinterest. Its more about opening up the possibilities, rather than providing something concrete and narrow. As a more extreme example how does it compare to your C&M and Cifonelli suits: if you say its nearly as good that may change everything!! We felt that lack of advice offered us a huge gap in the market.. Thank you. Im looking at getting a first sportsjacket for casual wear made but the justification of 1500 for one despite the longetivity is negative. Really like the balance and proportions of this particular suit, perhaps it would be worthy of a style breakdown sometime? I tried them at home but was not convinced, so i went back in and saw a third fitter (not sure where they get people from when John is not available) who agreed they were too baggy, and alterations were appropriately made. I want to have a morning suit made. Have a good weekend. These Tailors Are Doing It Anyway. I just wonder if for something traditional and rarer like morning dress they would be able to help guide me through the process as well as A&S. Thank you for your help and the great website. This shouldnt really be surprising. The same cutter and coatmaker (John McCabe and Bob Bigg) managed the making of both. I would estimate 9cm but if you get a chance to measure it I would be grateful. McCabe and Bigg are masters of old English styling, whereas Walton cuts a comfortable, contemporary jacket with drape with shape, loosely inspired by her training (under McCabe) at Kilgour. The biggest danger is when you get to structural things (eg shoulders) or things that arent linear and therefore easy to describe (eg the shape of a lapel). I hope that makes sense. I notice that they have recently taken on a new cutter called Sian Walton. Thank you very much for your assistance. Interesting to see how well a lime tie works too; I wouldnt have considered that. How are the characters hobbies evidence of their social class. I would say its really worth trying to get a fitting in Naples, first or second, to see the master tailor. Thanks for your time, JK. Our coats are fully handmade with floating canvases. Would you have any advice for what I should ask for if you dont think their house style fits with that criteria? I do think its worth asking, as they are generally quite open to such ideas, but at the same time if they seem hesitant then dont push it. Is sufficient to have the master coatmaker in the fittings or you absolutely need to see the cutter? I also found the comments of others instructive and food for thought. There are cheap Neapolitan tailors coming to London use them instead if thats the look you want. So I would go to Sexton for their style, and to Whitcomb for theirs. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bespoke Cashmere Wool Safari Jacket Drakes London Style - 2500 In Blue (Large) at the best online prices at eBay! Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the conventional fashion in on-site workrooms, and Classic Bespoke, which is cut in London and made in the brands workshop in Chennai, India. I have 2 W+S suits now and have been happy with both (both business suits). All bespoke has small margins and much higher production costs money spent on making, rather than selling. I am a doctor trust and confidence is my core value. Youll find a few reviewed here, most obviously W&S, Graham Browne, Choppin & Lodge, and Manning & Manning. With over 400 years of accumulated experience on Savile Row, our master cutters and tailors take care of ensuring a perfect fit, creating the ultimate collaboration of design and craftsmanship. Its nice in a sports coat, but frankly its not one I would wear with denim. Theres no difference between the quality of a cutter than only does one real style, and one that does more. Wonderful. Thank you, As a general rule Id want to see the cutter, but in this case Id make an exception, given Bob and everyone else have worked so closely together for a long time. W&S will still be more formal than pretty much anything Vergallo will produce. But then youre paying over twice the price. Interestingly, there is also quite a lot of drape to the chest something I like on my Anderson & Sheppard suits both for their comfort and impression of a bigger upper body. I also wouldnt say it will make any difference seeing them both at different points. Any unique creation is possible from designing your own fabric to printing a customized lining, you can play designer, or you can sit back and let us create a masterpiece for you, enjoying the elegance and style that has come to represent British tailoring. Its just that if any bespoke tailor spent as much as designer brands on marketing, advertising, shops etc, theyd be 50% more expensive. Hi Sam (And which?). Vergallo doesnt get enough attention they remain excellent value. So it would still look a little more formal than the Neapolitan style? This kind of service level is something that can quickly drop out with cheaper offerings. Because theyre made specifically for each customer, they also tend to fit better than store-bought suits. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the conventional fashion in on-site workrooms, and Classic Bespoke, which is cut in London and made in the brand's workshop in Chennai, India. So essentially the questions are: They certainly could, and Id say you should expect at least two fittings ideally three (with the last one being with a finished suit, but something small needs to be tweaked always a good idea to get that tweak, painful as it may be! This article maybe one of the most significant you have written in terms of opening up bespoke suiting to a market that couldnt justify the 3k plus cost of a row suit, irrespective of relative value. Quite affordable at $500/600 trousers. Curious on the lapel width used here. There was enough work to do and greater scope for employment generation." http . If you are buying off-the-rack clothes, they are tailored to fit you. Cloth: Holland & Sherry, Classic Worsteds, 12/13oz. I think there is often a risk with bespoke that people expect perfection, and everything to have been considered for them, when it is more interactive, and does have most benefits over time. Gone for a nice navy classic worsted. We specialise in handcrafted bespoke suits that are constructed from the finest natural materials and express a timeless elegance. It sounds like it might also be due to the fact that this was your first experience. As a footnote Shortlist today have an article on Penhaligons free fragrance profiling service. Thats largely due to length of the jacket, and a slightly fuller skirt. The style is slightly different, in that W&S tend to cut with a little less drape, less of a wide shoulder. Thanks. Before you raise an . Looking forward to know your thoughts. People even complain when they find out some of the work is being done just off Carnaby Street, rather than in a basement off Savile Row. Its unlikely theyll be able to do it in much of a rush though, given it has to go back to Naples each time to be made. . I dont have the cloth number, but I can get it. and lovely to talk to. I explicitly did not make any comments about the suit while it was cut, except answers to questions I was asked. Would be nice to see W&S in the style breakdown series. Although given how many issues tailors have had over the past 30 years (particularly changing business models or cutters so youre relationship goes out the window) I think theyve got as much chance of staying around as anyone. 192 following. Good suits can look terrible; bad ones good. I can understand why some people dont want a suit where any of it is made abroad. However, am i expecting too much? Our coats are fully handmade with floating canvases. And even if she were a bespoke cutter, Id still have confidence saying W&C is better value for money. And I would also sound a general warning that getting a satisfying result when asking a cutter to do a different style than what theyre used to is very hard. More than Poole, but less than A&S. Eventually, in a visit to London last summer, I had W & S make me a versatile grey flannel three-piece and I was extremely pleased: absolutely wonderful cut and fit, and exquisite hand finishing. Very happy with her. At the same time, I wouldnt want to be impolite and ask them to do something entirely different compared to their usual cut. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Whitcomb + Shaftesbury UK Bespoke One Button Gray Blazer-No Pants-Fit 43 Short at the best online prices at eBay! John doesnt go on all the trips, but I wouldnt worry too much about that as long as hes there for one or two of the fittings. This article describes my way of creating a closet for a character. Id still call them an English tailor But its hard to say Id say buy whichever of the two you can stretch to. Simon I had a second basted fitting, in which some of the issues were accounted for. Permanent Style - Artisan of the Year 2021 New York 21-24 February 2023 They will often try to cater to different styles, but without a lot of experience of doing so. She is very kind and nice Are there any other tailors in the Milan/Northern Italy area that I should consider as well, that would be great starting points to the high-end bespoke world? But as I live in Geneva, and Varese would not be such a long drive from here, would Sartoria Vergallo also be a great option for high-end bespoke at relatively good prices? Fit is very good and I find the level of make and finishing not too far behind my other English bespoke suits. Just what Im looking for. Can you confirm the exact fabric for reference if it is navy rather than the mid blue the photographer has managed to make it look like? Is there an equivalent for this type of value with other articles (i.e. They wont move the button or buttonhole, but they might open the shoulder seam and pick one side up slightly. Do you recommend against a tuxedo as a first commission from a tailor? Ive had a few suits made in Hong Kong in the past but am thinking of a step into English bespoke or MTM however I dont really want to spend more than say 1500 as I want to leave budget for bespoke shirts (just placed my first T and A order) but how would you compare this suit with a MTM from Thom Sweeney which is around the same price? I have large shoulders, am tall and have a relatively slim waist, but dont feel comfortable looking bigger. Thanks. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury RAF-blue suit: Style . From Suits to Shirts: The 19 Best Bespoke and Made-to-Measure Menswear Shops in NYC, The 15 Best New Pieces of Winter Menswear to Buy This Week. Explore. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury makes hand made bespoke suits and shirts using traditional tailoring techniques Whitcomb & Shaftesbury Coming up on the PS Shop this Autumn/Winter, Tailoring for travelling: tough, comfortable, plain, my post on the bespoke service at Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Simonnot-Godard via Mes Chaussettes Rouges, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury RAF-blue suit: Style Breakdown, Artisan of the Year 2021: Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Edward Sexton offshore bespoke tailoring. Though no, its a noticeable but not huge difference to go for 11oz rather than 13oz, I have suits in both. The real benefits of bespoke are in the long term, for example when you have gone through it once or twice, and know exactly what you want and what to ask about during the sessions. We decided to offer a hand-tailoring scheme, so John [McCabe] flew out to India and began to train local craftspeople to a Savile Row standard., The author in his corduroy suit and Donegal overcoat commissioned from Whitcomb & Shaftesbury. It's still early days for the two suit, but signs are good that the Indian suit in particular (Whitcomb & Shaftesbury called it Classic Bespoke) will be a great value option for anyone looking to try bespoke for the first time. Thank you. What you may not know, though, is that while the name sounds traditional, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury has built its reputation for quality by doing things differently. See how much you wear it and what you enjoy about it, at least for a while. He brings with him to Whitcomb & Shaftesbury his wealth of knowledge, skill and relationships with the trade to ensure the finest outcome in standing with his credentials. How would you compare W&S to Steven Hitchcock based on style and quality? 4,523 followers. The navy suit turned out lovely and is a comfortable business staple. In terms of an every day style for work, would you so this would be more suitable than Edward Sexton? I was wondering if you knew how prices for Saville Row Bespoke and Classic Bespoke have changed at Whitcomb & Shaftesbury since this article was written in 2016? Yes, it was at their basic cost. Bespoke suits are thus more expensive and take longer to produce, but they will provide you with a better fit than a custom suit ever could. As I showed back in 2016 when I had suits made in both, there is no quality difference between the two. Im always hesitant to suggest anything might be wrong with the jackets, without seeing them in person. Apologies if Ive missed it somewhere but what is the lapel width here? There is Mori, which Maslow So is trying to do out of China but thats not fully launched yet. Or take in some pictures of styles you like. Hi Simon, how does this classic bespoke service compare to Savile Row on after-sales servicing? Thanks as always, In London, just them and city tailors like Graham Browne. I dont know how those prices have changed, no sorry. Care to share your trick? Should the button and buttonhole align when the jacket is unbuttoned? Hi Simon. Ill reflect more on the overall style of Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, and where it sits relative to other tailors I have tried, when I publish the pictures of the Savile Row Bespoke suit. 1 talking about this. Great width and shape of the lapels with a nice roll, and well balanced gorge (dont you think the modern gorge placement is too high?). Being at ease doing this is why people talk a lot about the importance of relationship in bespoke too. Do you know anything about her? Do you mind me asking what make your glasses are? He was given the land by King Charles II in 1668 as a gift for his support of the Crown during the Civil War. Buttonholes are sewn with silk thread by hand. . The same business model doesnt quite exist, no. After reading your reviews, I am definitely considering the W&S Classic Bespoke offering. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the. Should the button and buttonhole align when the jacket is unbuttoned? Desperate to find an occasion to wear it again! Follow. After giving myself a headache of what tailor to try next after a poor experience from a new(ish) city tailoring firm (that shall remain nameless), I commissioned a new suit from GB in Dec. Outstanding blog, Simon. This is one thing that has kept me reading your blog youre not a snob (in that way). I have a severe drop in my right shoulder and the button is a good 2cm lower than the buttonhole when unbuttoned. He values fit above everything, but as he does all the work himself, it is a very easy relationship. Trousers Read More Heavy brown Brisbane Moss cords Trousers Read More The T-shirt under a shirt (and tailoring) Casual clothing Read More The style of a belted wrap coat - with Whit. Even though W&S is affordable compared to Savile Row, I would prefer neapolitans which are comparable in price to W&S but in my experience produced a much nicer fitting and much more comfortable jacket than W&S. Fit not good. Got it, thanks. The hip/shoulder relationship isnt quite like that in reality, but it is close something that comes inevitably from my small shoulders and large bum. Predominantly a Savile Row style or do they stray into Neapolitan construction as well? How flexible would you say they are in terms of cut, construction etc? I dont think this is something you have covered already (apologies if i have missed it). For years, we had our suits made, explains Suresh, and we both felt that you could find good product, but it was a struggle to find good advice. There isnt necessarily a third fitting, but there will usually be one or two small things that its worth refining if its your first suit. No it would look good without a tie. Richard. Hi Simon, quick follow up on the cloth and finding the right shade of navy for business. Thats really interesting to hear. Id pick between the two on style more than anything else. Apologies if this is an obvious question. Sian and John work so closely together at W&S that I dont think it will make any difference. I am unsatisfied considering GB is 850 but their forte is not in this style of tailoring. Black mens jeans: how to choose and with what to wear? Includes access to the digital magazine. It also depends how close the styles are. And hands out of pockets do allow a superior view of cut and style.. nice one. And looking at her site, I have my fears she certainly seems to be a stylist rather than a cutter. Their classic bespoke service, which involves cutting the suit in London (by a very experienced Row cutter), and then having it largely made in India (in a workshop run by a Row tailor) promised fantastic value at 1350 + VAT for a suit. I also expect that you may receive favorable treatment in many instances, possibly skewing the actual standard of service. I had suits made in both, in order to compare them. Firstly, the armhole is quite low and it is restrictive (I compare this to a subsequent bespoke suit I had made by Ciardi). The only tailor Ive seen do that passably is Cifonelli and even then its not quite the same. So be prepared that its a risk. Custom-made apparel is the product of exact measurements taken for you, instead of an imaginary figure. Thanks!! My advice would be, as with any bespoke, to start simple and classic. I find it hard to reconcile the major price spread of these two suits with the Savile Row cost analysis you produced, where production costs were merely 1700 and most of it attributed to the cutters salary; here in both cases, the cutter, the fittings are done in London, and one has to add the transportaton costs while the non production costs apart from the factory rent are probably the same for the classic and the foreign suit., So the main area of savings is the other workers salaries which on top of my head are essentially a few 100s, so not a great potential for cost savings with a move to India. I mean, top quality stuff for about a 1/3 of the price. The timeline is very similar to other bespoke offerings usually 4-6 weeks between each stage, often quicker towards the end. I would take it back in and talk to the tailor about it.